Greetings, Mates, Well, Photo Bucket FINALLY let me post the photos I took the other day, whilst testing the new MSR pumps!! Took forever, even to do the last three photos, this morning! Go figure.... So, without further ado, here's a late Christmas present. Also, here's this year's Christmas tree!! We've still been enjoying it, though it will have to come down soon. The first stove up to bat, was my older MSR GK. I recently cleaned this stove, and found that it works very well, indeed! It started very easily, and got a serious blue flame going, in short order. Of course, it's "voice" was throaty and full!! 8) On this stove, I used the new, heavier, MSR replacement pump, and found that it works very well in some ways, and maybe not so well, in others. More about that later. Next up, was my MSR X-GK II Shaker Jet model. This is really an outstanding stove, and I was glad to fire it up, after it's few years of rest! As I only have one new pump, I decided to use an older black and grey-bodied pump, that only had a few miles on it, on this stove. The results were interesting, and showed the need more testing. But, so far, it appears the newer pump, though heavier in construction, with many improvements, might be even less able to let the MSR stoves actually simmer!! That, if true, will be a big disappointment to me!! The X-GK II, with the older pump, simmered much easier than did the GK, with the newer pump, which really didn't simmer AT ALL!! It was either on, or off, with NO in between!! Rats and Mice!!! So, my next test will be to switch pumps on the same stoves, and see what happens. Results to follow. Here's a shot of both stoves, offering a bit of Cherry Red, and an nice large flame, for Brother Spudz and all! I also tested my MSR Dragonfly stove, with it's new, more robust pump. You may remember that this stove actually had it's brand new pump break on me, in the course of it's first few uses!!! Needless to say, this pissed me off, more than a little!! I had shelved the Dragonfly since that time, and this was the first time I've used it since then. Here's a shot of the Dragonfly in action, sporting it's new replacement pump, which, of course, you can't see in the photo!! Duh!!! And, of course, some CR!! So, what are my thoughts, after having tested the new pumps? Glad you asked, Mates!! 8) First, and foremost, the new replacement pumps offered by MSR, are a vast improvement over all previous MSR pumps, in some ways! They are stronger, and much less likely to break, melt down, of otherwise cause you grief!! In this, they are well worth buying. However, in the short test that I did, I could NOT make the new pump, being used on the GK, simmer! No matter what technique I used, and no matter how hard I tried, the stove was either on, or off, period!! Further testing will reveal if this was caused by the pump, or the stove, itself. As far as the new proprietary pump for the Dragonfly, and Andy, I kept you in mind all during my testing, I would say that it's a resounding success!!!! Using the new and more robust pump, my Dragonfly worked like gang-busters!! It started easily, developed a full, hot flame quickly, and also simmered perfectly!!! Now, this may well be due to the stove design, and not the pump, but who cares??!! As long as this stove and pump were meant to be used together, and they were, then the results are the same! Because it's MUCH stronger and safer than it's predecessor, I can offer a full, and unqualified recommendation for the new MSR Dragonfly pump!!! I do not think it will prove as fragile as it's predecessor, and it appears to be a marked improvement for the Dragonfly!! However, with the other replacement pump, more testing is definitely in order. I will make the pump switches, and run my test again, to see if the pump, itself, is the cause of poor simmering on the GK. I hope that it is the stove, and not the pump, but will report my exact findings. So, there you have it, Mates. More testing will reveal a little more information, and I will pass that along, when I get time to do the tests. Included in the next set of tests, will be boil times, and also a side-by side-test of the MSR X-GK and Dragonfly stoves, against, the Optimus Nova!!! Stay tuned, Stove Mates, for further developments!! 8) 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
DOC.. once again another quality post..it almost makes me re-think my choice of canoeing stoves..but--i prefer the burner and tank as one unit..all that pluging in and removeing the fuel lines seems like it would be hard on the "o" rings--which i would not want to fool around replaceing in the field..and "but" again--i have lots of trips comming up and just might take one to try as the main stove and have another tucked away as a back up. like the man said..harder to change stoves than religion---- about photobucket--i was have the same sort of problems downloading the icefishing shots to the bucket..i ended up going off line and on again between each download and that fresh connection seemed to "take" and load right away.. whitecastle's..the boy is from out of state and i took him just for fun..those were the first i had in years--- it's 1pm in Minneapolis--i better get on with the house chores--i'll check later to see what else you have to offer --
New pump, simmerless stoves. You'd think that MSR would have got the hang of these things by now. There's people here who can build better stoves than that, and do it just for fun.
Mark, just junk the MSR stoves and get a Nova or Omnifuel, all the messing about to get a simmer would just do my head in
Hey, Guys, Ian and Rik, I have both the Nova and also the Omni-fuel, and like them both, very much! But, I also like my MSR X-GK stoves, and my MSR Firefly. I know they are outstanding stoves, and once the pump problems are defined, and fixed, I'll use them once more. I'm happy to have seen the Dragonfly respond as well as it did, to it's new pump, and look forward to more testing of that stove, as well as my cherished Firefly. One thing to remember is that X-GK stoves, and their predecessors, were not designed to actually simmer. As Arch so correctly posted, earlier in this thread, they were meant to be super reliable, and to melt tons of snow to create water for high altitude mountain climbers, and thus counter-act altitude sickness. They do that, wonderfully!! That said, however, I have had pretty good luck in getting my earlier X-GK stoves to simmer, too, and that's why I'm messing with all this. The GK, which did not simmer, might not do so, no matter which pump I use with it. I haven't used that stove, as it's new to me. That will be the next step in my testing. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I'll be testing the X-GK's against the Nova, too, and what the heck, might as well toss in the Omni-fuel, as well!!! See how much fun all this is, Lads???!!! 8) 8) 8) If it wasn't fun, I wouldn't be doing it. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Hey, Dave, Thanks, very much! As I wrote to Ian and Rik, all this is all quite a bit of fun for me, and I wish I could do it all day long, without having to worry about time, or work!! 8) I think you would enjoy taking along your GK on a future canoe trip, as a second stove. I have not had problems with the fuel line o-rings, specifically, and part of that is because I always coat the end of the fuel line with saliva before inserting it into the pump. Sure, it sometimes tastes funny, but what the heck, it works!! 8) 8) Also, replacing such an o-ring is very easy, and super quick, should you ever need to do so. You could use your GK for boiling water, and cook on your Peak 1. Sounds like a combo made in heaven! And, if you can get your GK to simmer, so much the better. I'll be looking forward to more testing, and will see what happens with my own GK. I love the stove, and hope it can be made to simmer. But, if not, I have two other X-GK stoves which simmer quite well, when used as they should be used. We'll see how they work with the new pump. Thanks, again, for the always kind words, Dave! I look forward to your future canoe adventures, and would be super happy to join you, one of these years, if we could work it out!!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
UPDATE TIME: Hey, Gents, I got a few minutes today, and went down to swap pumps on the X-GK and GK, MSR stoves. Back outside, the only difference was that the wind was not howling as it had been during the first test. With pumps swapped, both stoves started up very easily, just as before, and each stove burned with that patented MSR X-GK vulcano flame!! You HAVE to love stoves like this!!!!! 8) OK, here's the nitty gritty: With the pumps swapped, I was eager to see if the GK would actually simmer, as it had not been able to with the new MSR pump installed. With the older pump on it, it simmered pretty easily, and I would be happy to use this stove on any trip. How about the X-GK II Shaker Jet? Well, wonder of wonders, it actually had a better simmer than did the GK!!!! 8) 8) With the new MSR pump installed on this stove, it took a while to find the "sweet spot". But once I'd found it, I tested the simmer, over and over again, just to make sure it was not a fluke! Yep, sure as shootin', it simmered even better than the GK! The secret is a completely different feel, and a completely different manner of setting up the pump for simmering. With the older pumps, the stove reacts quicker to changes in fuel control, and it's easy to find your simmering place, right away. With the new pump, it takes a bit longer for the stove to react, AND you have to almost fully close down the fuel control valve, then "just" crack it back open, to get a simmering flame!!! Again, it took me a bit of playing around to find this combination, but once found, it was easy to find it again, and again!! With a simmering plate, of any kind, you will be right up town, and hey, maybe even without the simmering plate! Next, I'll do my boiling tests, and other goodies, which will be an important aspect of all this. I will boil water, simmer, and maybe ever cook something, and I'll do it on the MSR stoves, the Optimus Nova, and the Primus Omni-fuel. I didn't have time to do all this today, and it might take a while for me to complete this testing. But, the proof is in the pudding, Lads, and the new MSR pump IS a wonderful improvement in safety and reliability!!! AND, it will allow those of us who love MSR X-GK's, and Firefly stoves, to use our stoves with greater confidence and without fear of a catastrophic meltdown!!!! (Yes, those that like MSR's Whisperlite stoves will benefit from this, too. I just don't happen to be one of them, and don't care much for those stoves!) The safety improvement is the most important thing, of course. But, if these new pumps will also allow us to better simmer our cooking foods, then the picture will, truly, be complete!!!! More later, Mates!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Keep up the good work Doc!! Forgot why you hate the whisperlight international! Lets see how they shape up!! Love the whole lot of it so far>> Bruce
Thanks for the report Doc! Great stuff, as usual. One thing though. I would love to see the FireFly in action with the new pump. I don't doubt the combination will come up roses, but just seeing that stove in action would put the final touch on this report. Let's see it! The new MSR pump, as will as our beloved FireFly!
Hey, Bruce and Andy! Thanks, Guys! Bruce, I don't care for the Whisperlite stoves, because they have a nagging tendancy to clog and stop working. I have several of each type of Whisperlite, and have not been impressed by their lack of total reliability. AND, MSR completely misrepresented their Whisperlite Internationale in all their ads, and continue to do so!!! After ours quit working while we were on the Pacific Crest Trail, despite meticulous care on my part, I later contacted MSR and was told that we should have been using Coleman fuel in that stove instead of kerosene. I commented that the Internationale was touted as a multifuel stove, to which the MSR Rep replied, "Well, it will burn kerosene in a pinch, but it's really designed to burn nothing but Coleman fuel". Soon thereafter, MSR competely redesigned the generator on the Internationale, trying to make it clog up less. I have two of the "newer" versions of this stove, and still do not trust it. It's only positive attributes are that it folds up small, and that it boils water quickly and relatively quietly. All of the Whisperlite stoves are way too clog-prone for me to ever trust them again, and they will NOT simmer at all, nor cook food very well!! The stove they replaced, the Firefly, was much more dependable, it boils water faster, and simmers very, very well!! It just didn't fold up as small, had an odd windscreen arrangement, which didn't pack well with most cooksets, and it was LOUD!!!! (Loudest stove, in fact, that I've ever heard!) 8) Sketch, I'll include the Firefly in my further testing, just for you and me!!! 8) 8) I'll be willing to bet, right now, that it will best all the other stoves in boiling water, and that it's simmering capabilities will be amongst the best of them. I will look forward to getting the time to do the rest of the needed testing. Photos and results to follow!! Thanks, again, Guys for your interest in this fun topic! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
DOC-- i bought my Wisperlite on Ebay,it should be the international model but did not come in a box..i looked at the stoves on the REI site but i can't really see the deference.. as the weather in MPLS is warm-- 40's--i'll put one of those new pumps in my kero bottle and see how it runs..
Hey, Brother Dave, I can take a photo of all the Whisperlite types, from which you can see which model you have. If you have a regular Whisperlite, which has a very small generator loop, using kerosene in it WILL clog it right up. Give me a few minutes, and I'll take and post the photo to this thread. Talk to you soon, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Hi, Dave, Ok, here are two photos, of the three basic Whisperlite stove types. Left to right, are: The original Whisperlite Internationale, the Whisperlite Internationale 600 (which was meant to replace the original version, and to be less prone to clogging and failure), and the regular Whisperlite, Coleman fuel stove. Here's a side view, so you can see the differences in the generator loops. Note, on the regular Whisperlite, how thin the loop is. There are, to my knowledge, three versions of the regular Whisperlite, and I have all three. The one pictured is the middle version. The first one had a rubber fuel line, covered with cloth. It was replaced by the one you see in the photo, which has a woven brass-covered fuel line. The last version of the Whisperlite was the Shaker Jet model, with it's internal cleaning needle. Again, I have all three of these, but they appear so much the same, from the outside, that I only photographed one of them. The main differences between the Internationale, and the Internationale 600 are the size and length of the generator loops, and the Shaker Jet addition, plus the changes in fuel lines, as noted with the regular Whisperlite. In my experience, none of the Whisperlite stoves are good cookers. They boil water quickly, and pack up nice and small. But, I've had clogging problems with all of them, to one extent, or another, though the Internationale was by far the worst of the lot!!! Hopefully, you can tell by the photos, which version you own. If it's the regular Whisperlite, I'd recommend nothing but prefiltered Coleman fuel as a diet. Also, if yours has the rubber fuel line, you can replace it with the better and far safer brass-covered one. If your stove is the Internationale, I'd recommend just using prefiltered Coleman fuel in it, or I think you will be having clogging problems, eventually. If you have the Internationale 600, hey, maybe it will work well for you with kerosene. I just don't trust the WL series, and think that there are other stoves from MSR which are much better, including your GK. Have fun testing and playing with your stove, no matter which one it is!! I will be very interested in hearing about your experiments. If you have any other questions, please give me a shout. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Good Evening, Mates, Tonight, I had a few minutes, and decided to stick the new MSR pump on my beloved Firefly, and see how it worked with that stove. I am thrilled to report that the Firefly worked perfectly with the new pump, and roared with it's throaty, strong voice, as if it was very thankful to once again be making flame!!! Here's a shot of it in full flame!!! And, here's another shot, this time of it's outstanding simmering flame. Show me other super powerful stoves that can simmer THIS good, Mates!!!! Ain't many of them around, that's for sure! This is just about as good as it gets!! Guess I'll have to go buy two more of the new pumps. One will live on my Firefly, permanently, and the other two will be for my X-GK stoves. The Dragonfly is already taken care of, since I was given a replacement of the newer pump, when the original DF pump went South on me. Though I've now had four of the older MSR pumps fail, or break, I'm excited that the strong new replacement pumps will be giving a few of my MSR favorites new life!!! Cool, that's for sure!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
